ÆTHELMEARC COLLEGE OF HERALDS - commentary archive
Letter of Intent #106
Raventongue Commenting Group

Greetings from the Ravenstongue Group.  Here follow our comments on ILOI # 106, dated 1 July 2007 (AS 42)

1. Aurelio di Baldasare - no problems
 
2. Corbinus de Cuvae - no problems.
 
3. Faith of Rayne - no problems.
 
4.  Garrett Williamson - no problems.
 
5. Ghille MacDhonuill badge # 1 - no problems, except for a slight spelling error: that should be b_e_ndwise, not b_a_ndwise.
 
6. Ghille MacDhonuill badge # 2 - no problems.
 
7. Hildegardis quae et Berthegund - nicely documented name.  The device is problematic, however.  We are concerned about the indented pile on two counts.  First, it does not go far enough into base.  And second, it seems to want to start at the very corner, not in toward the center in chief.  This actually gives more of an appearance of "per chevron indented sable and chequy Or and sable."  Except that if you do THAT, you lose the higher chequy section of the field.  Thus the desire for nice square symmetrical patterning gets in the way of the emblazon & the blazon matching.  So, we feel that this needs to redrawn to match the blazon.
 
8. Lasairfhiona inghean Ui Ghallchobhair - no problems.
 
9. Marian of Blackwood - No problems with the name.  The device, "Quarterly argent semy of shamrocks and sable, a rose poper," presents problems, however.  First, the argent quarters look more than enough like ermine to be ermine. But that is only an artistic remark.  Also, possible conflict with 1) Dana of Colraine (badge): (Fieldless) A primrose gules, slipped and leaved and seeded proper.  There is no difference between a primrose and a rose.  Thus you get only the zen CVD for the field.  and 2) House of Lancaster (badge): (Fieldless) a rose gules.  Same count.  The red rose & rose proper are not significantly different.
 
10. Marija Kotok - no problems with the name.  The device however, "Per saltire sable and gules, a lion couchant argent," is problematic.  First, there appears to be blazon fu.  Shouldn't it be "per saltire gules and sable"?  Second, there is a possible conflict with Ellen of Caer Seiont (device): Pean, a domestic cat dormant guardant argent.  We see one for the field.  We don't see a CVD for the head position.  Next, possile conflict with Trude Lacklandia (device): Sable, a domestic cat couchant guardant chased argent.  Same count as above.
 
11. Sionn, the Lost - Name: why, the comma?  Device, "Per b_e_nd sinister azure & vert, on a bend sinister between a compass rose & a candle argent with candlestick Or, three question marks sable," has sone difficulties.  First, a high complexity count (9: 4 tinctures, four charges, and a field division) and looks very slot machine-y.  Second, the use of the rather modern representation of a question mark, or of any punctuation mark, is just wrong.  The precedents cited actually argue against the submitter's case.  I'm quoting them completely below fololowed by our comments:
 
Wolfangus MhicMairghdhin. (badge for Clan Moot). Argent, a Norse onelegged serpent vert entwined about a question mark erect azure. (Punctus interrogativus).
NOTE: The term erect implies that the question mark is not "inclined to the right," the nominal default orientation for the charge. DISCUSSION: The original rejection for this submission stated, "The question mark is out of period. What was used in our period is a wavy hyphen over a period." (WvS, 16 Sep 1980, p. 5) The objection was clearly to the specific charge, not to the use of punctuation marks in general. Lord Wolfangus has provided documentation that refutes the original objection, no conflicts have been reported, and the submission is not in obvious violation of the rules. I feel we have a moral obligation to approve this particular submission. It is my judgement, however, that punctuation marks are even less heraldic than letters of the alphabet, and so are not suitable for use in SCA heraldry. I will treat this submission as an exception, for the reasons stated, but will not allow this badge to be cited as precedent in the future. [September 1984]
 
Elijah Tynker. Device. Per pale argent and sable, in pale a sickle and roundel counterchanged.
This device must be returned, as by long standing precedent, a single abstract symbol may not be registered. As previously noted, "[in pale a fleam inverted and a roundel] ... the combination of the fleam inverted and the roundel creates the appearance of a single charge -- a question mark -- instead of two separate charges. [Dafydd Ó Nuallain, 11/99, R-East]." On resubmission the submitter should show evidence that the use of punctuation marks - or a combination of charges that appears to be a punctuation mark - is compatible with period heraldic practice. [December 2005]
 
Please note that is Wolfangus 1984, Laurel specifically states that this is NOT a precedent for future use of punctuation marks "It is my judgement, however, that punctuation marks are even less heraldic than letters of the alphabet, and so are not suitable for use in SCA heraldry. I will treat this submission as an exception, for the reasons stated, but will not allow this badge to be cited as precedent in the future."  Further in Elijah 2005, Laurel states, "On resubmission the submitter should show evidence that the use of punctuation marks - or a combination of charges that appears to be a punctuation mark - is compatible with period heraldic practice."  Since our submitter has not shown any evidence of the question mark being used in period armory, we feel this should be returned.
 
In service,
 
Fridrikr Sycamore, writing for Pleasance Ravenstongue, and Matilda Silver Buccle.