ÆTHELMEARC
COLLEGE OF HERALDS - commentary archive
Letter of Intent #118 Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon
Feast of St. Antonino
10 May AS XLIV
Greetings from Myfanwy!
Herein pray find commentary on Æ LoI #118. Everything was
conflict-checked up through the February 2009 LoAR.
I remain your servant and the Society’s.
Lady Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon
Ruth Morrisson
Myfanwy@nauticom.net
1. Ælric Ravenshaw (new household name for House Silver Talon,
and
badge) -- Quarterly azure and argent, on a roundel sable a talon
argent.
The use of <silver> as a color can be found in The Compact
OED [p. 2826, sn Silver] (definition 6, given as “a
silvery colour [sic] or lustre [sic]. Its use for this definition is
dated to 1481, citing Caxton’s Reynard xxxii , (Arb.)
85:
Wherin stode somme strange hystoryes whiche were of gold, of sable,
of siluer.
It is also dated to 1592, cited in Shakespeare’s Romeo and
Juliet, II. ii. 108:
By yonder Moone I vow, That tips with siluer all these Fruite tree
tops.
The submitted spelling (with the meaning of wealth or money) is dated
to c. 1340 [ibid.] citing HAMPOLE Pr. Consc. 4434:
He sal gyf {th}am..Of gold and silver gret plente.
and (in the meaning of the metallic thread used for embroidery oe
cloth of silver) to 1423 [ibid.], in the Rolls of Parl. IV,
255/1:
Brauderie..wrought with Gold or Silver of Cipre.
<Talon> is found in The CompactOED
[p. 3230, sn Talon]; definition 2 says:
2. pl. [sic] The claws (or less
usually in sing. ‘[sic] any claw) [sic] of a
bird or beast. a. spec [sic]. The
powerful claws or a bird of prey, or or
a dragon, griffin, etc.
The closest spelling for this (plural) meaning is <taloun> dates
to
roughly 1400 in Maundev (1839) xxvi. 269:
[The Griffon] [sic] hath his talouns so longe and so grete as
{th}ough
{th}ei weren hornes of grete oxen,
The submitted spelling (in the plural form) is dated to 1486 as an
earlier (but obsolete) definition, that of the “hallux or hinder claw
of a bird”; the citation is the Bk. St. Albans v.
viij:
The grete Clees [of a hawk] [sic] behynde..ye shall call hom Talons.
For both of these definitions, it sounds as if a <talon> is an
individual claw or digit, rather than the entire foot, as is depicted
here.
The Barony of Thescorre registered the order name Order of the Black
Talon in Oct. 2004 (I had to go back through LoI through LoI back
further than I remember it being submitted, in order to find the
original submission).
The name <Silver Talon> seems to be a reasonable variant. It is
clear of the prior registration, because of the change of descriptive
element; RfS V.2.b says in part: b. Conflict of Names with the Same Number of Elements
[sic] - Two
non-personal names with the same number of descriptive elements
conflict unless [sic] at least one of the following
conditions is met.
i. Change of Elements [sic] - Two such names do not
conflict
if each [sic] of them contains a descriptive
element significantly
different from every [sic] descriptive
element in the other.
House Saint Mary , Saint Mary Herald ,
[sic] and the College of Sainte
Marie [sic] all conflict with one another because their
descriptive
elements are equivalent; House ,
Herald , [sic] and College of , [sic]
being designators, are not descriptive elements. The House
of the
Red Dolphin [sic] does not conflict with the House
of the Blue Dolphin
[sic] or the House of the Red Lion [sic].
That being said, however, it isn’t clear that the submitted armory
really *is* a cant, given the OED definition. The badge for the
prior registration is blazoned as: “Argent, in pale
an eagle’s toe fesswise couped sable and two bars wavy azure”; The
LoAR commentary says:
The use of a bird’s toe is a single step from period practice.
The PIC-DIC [sn. Leg, and fig. 464] shows a eagle’s leg “couped a la
quise”, which appears to be couped partly up the upper part of the
leg. Parker [pp. 367-38, sn Leg] says:
Legs of beasts and birds with the paw [sic],
foot, [sic], &c., are also
[p. 368] borne as charges apart from the animal or bird itself: but
the
term most used is gambe [sic], q.v. The fr. term
à la quise [sic], i.e. [sic]
at the thigh, is also frequently found in connection with
erased [sic].
In addition, Parker [p. 271, sn Foot] also says:
The feet of birds and animals occur, but generally with a por-
[sic]
tion of the leg [sic], q.v.
Possible reblazon: Quarterly azure and argent, on an
[ogress/pellet/gunstone] an eagle’s jambe erased argent.
Possible reblazon: Quarterly azure and argent, on an
[ogress/pellet/gunstone] an eagle’s leg erased a la quise argent.
possibly not clear of: Genevieve d’Argent Chene (11/01 Meridies) --
Quarterly azure and argent, on a roundel sable a tree argent a bordure
wavy counterchanged.
There is a CD for removing the bordure, but there is only type change
(and nothing else) for the tertiary.
possibly clear of: Ushi Kerai Tokoyo No Kokuo (1/80 Atenveldt) --
Gyronny argent and sable, a roundel sable voided and fimbriated argent.
There is a CD for changes to the field, and possibly one for the
fimbriation (it’s unclear, since the fimbriation would effectively
show on only half of the gyrons). There may or may not be a CD for
change of type of tertiary.
clear of: Dav Greyheart (1/73 ??) -- Argent, on a pellet a francisque
(axe) sic] Or.
There is a CD for changing half the field, and one for significant
changes (type and tincture) to the tertiary.
possibly not clear of: Freydis Olafsdottir (10/96 Meridies) --
Gyronny argent and gules, on a pellet a decrescent argent.
possibly not clear of: Bors Mac Gregour of Loch Turretan (11/07
Atlantia) -- Or, on a pellet a boar’s head erased argent.
possibly not clear of: Béla Kós (badge, 7/07 Outlands) --
Per saltire
gules and argent, on a pellet a skull argent.
In each case, there is a CD for changes to at least half the field,
but only change of type of tertiary.
probably clear of: Haerraich the Cossack (1/73 ??) -- Gyronny sable
and argent, on a pellet two shamshirs in saltire argent, hilted Or.
There is a CD for changes to the field; there may be one for
cumulative changes to the tertiary group (type, number, arrangement,
and partial tincture.
I also found the following, which are clear of conflict but which
should be inspected for other issues:
Minowara Kiritsubo (badge, 12/06 Atlantia; mon) -- (Fieldless) A
pellet clasped per pall by three dragon’s talons conjoined argent.
This is not a conflict, per se, but I would like to see what the
emblazon of the talons actually are. The OSCAR records don’t go back
that far AFAIK.
Thescorre, Barony of (badge, 10/04 Æthelmearc, for Order of the
Black
Talon) -- Argent, in pale an eagle’s toe fesswise couped sable and two
bars wavy azure.
Not a conflict, but previously cited in commentary as to the
whole/claw/talon/toe issue.
2. Amy Davenport -- Per pale Or and vert, a shamrock within a bordure
embattled counterchanged.
The docs for the given name are as cited.
I don’t have Bardsley, but the Reaney and Wilson docs are as cited.
possibly not clear of: Bele Anna de Rugé (9/04 Calontir) -- Per
pale
Or and vert, a fleur-de-lys within a bordure embattled counterchanged.
There may be a CD between a shamrock/trefoil and a fleur-de-lys, but
I’ve been unable to find a Precedent to determine if there is
substantial difference (X.2). If this *not* a case of X.2, then there
is only a single CD, for type of primary.
clear of: Miriam d’Aurigny (6/90 West) -- Per pale Or and vert, on a
trefoil slipped three stars of David, one and two, all counterchanged.
There is a CD for removing the tertiaries, and at least one for adding
the complex-line bordure.
clear of: Trahaearn O Connachtaigh (11/95 Caid) -- Per pale vert and
Or, a trefoil counterchanged.
There is a CD for switching the tinctures, and at least one for adding
the complex line bordure.
possibly clear of: Elizabeth Braythwayte (1/09 Lochac) -- Per pale Or
and vert, an oak leaf counterchanged.
There is at least one CD for adding the complex-line bordure, but may
not be one for type of primary. A precedent from François’ first
tenure says: Purpure, on a pale argent three oak leaves vert
[sic] Conflict with ... Purpure, on a pale invected argent, three shamrocks vert
[sic]. There is
one CD for removing the complex line of partition from the pale.
There is no difference under RfS X.4.j.ii for changing the type only
of tertiary charges, since the type change is not substantial, just
significant, per the following precedent:
[Returning Sable, on a chevron between three horses rampant
argent, three oak leaves vert.] [sic] Conflict with ...
Sable, on a
chevron argent, three trefoils slipped vert. [sic] There
is a CD
for the addition of the secondaries, but the consensus among
the commenters was that there was not the substantial difference
required by X.4.j.ii. to grant the necessary second for the change
to type of the tertiaries. (LoAR 5/94, p.18) [sic]
[Laoghaire of the Valley, 05/03 [sic],
R-East]
This is reiterated in another return from François’ first
tenure:
[Per chevron argent and vert, two trefoils vert and a
dragonfly argent]
[sic] Conflict with ... Per chevron argent and vert, two
oak leaves and a
war-hammer counterchanged. [sic] Precedent holds that
there is significant,
but not substantial, difference between trefoils and oak leaves.
Because
the criterion in RfS X.2 requiring that "the type of every primary
charge
is substantially changed" is not met in this armorial comparison,
RfS X.2
cannot be used to clear the two pieces of armory of conflict. Thus,
there
is only one CD for changing the type of the charge group on the
field
under RfS X.4.e. The pertinent precedent reads: "[oak leaves vs.
trefoils
as charges on a chevron] [sic] Consensus among the commenters was
that there was not the substantial difference required by X.4.j.ii.
to grant
the necessary second for the change to type of the tertiaries" (LoAR
May
1994 p.18) [sic]. Note that, while this precedent applies to RfS
X.4.j.ii rather
than RfS X.2, the same distinction between substantial and
significant type
change is used in both sections of the Rules for Submission.
[Elena filia
Dugalli, 09/03, [sic] R-Trimaris]
3. Ballachlagan, Shire of -- Or, a bridge throughout enarched
sable between two laurel wreaths proper and a base wavy barry wavy
azure and argent.
The docs for the group name appear to be as cited.
Are these wreaths proper? They look distinctly sable in the enlarged
color emblazon. While IMO, “proper” would indicate green leaves and
(possibly) brown stems, there is a very old Precedent (from Wilhelm’s
tenure), which says:
The arms have insufficient contrast. Proper [sic] is
mostly used for
charges with non-heraldic tinctures. A laurel wreath is vert and
should be treated as such. WVS [55] [LoAR 26 Oct 81], [sic] p. 8 The wreaths should probably also be somewhat larger or else
spaced better (or both) to fill the space available (at this size,
three would fill the space better).
Does the bridge need to be blazoned as being masoned? I know that
fairly recently a lot of old armory was reblazoned for the number of
arches, but don’t remember if the masoning (or lack thereof) was an
issue at the time. It may also need to be somewhat larger, especially
given that it is the primary charge. According to the LoAR commentary
for the registration of Margaret Highbridge (10/08 East):
The September 2007 Cover Letter defines a period bridge:
We hereby rule officially that, in Society armory, the default
bridge is not throughout. (It's easy enough to blazon a throughout
bridge when one is submitted.) [sic] However, we also rule that, in
Society armory, there is no default number of spans; the number
must, in every case, be explicitly blazoned. A bridge drawn in the
period style -- throughout, three or more spans -- will be granted
difference from a castle, per RfS X.4.e. And, at the risk of
sounding
metaphorical, we'd like there to be water under the bridge.
A correctly drawn period bridge will be granted substantial
difference
from a fess. As such, this is clear of Spain, Gules, a fess
Or. [sic]
The arches should be drawn slightly larger in proportion to the rest
of
the bridge.
I don’t know how the emblazon of the bridge in the current submission
compares to the default. While this is certainly blazoned as
throughout, it isn’t entirely clear whether a single-arched bridge (or
at least this depiction of one) *is* in fact sufficiently clear from a
fess embattled (especially given that the latter only has the complex
line on the top unless blazoned as either “counter-embattled” or
“bretessed”.
The bottom charge is a ford. Doesn’t matter which order the tinctures
are in (other than to prevent color on color issues); there is a
Precedent from François’ first tenure which states:
Note that SCA blazon always explicitly tinctures a ford. If the
tinctures
of the ford are argent and azure (or the other way round, it may be
blazoned as proper [sic]. [Thomas Joseph de
Lacy, 11/03, A-Caid] [sic]
Possible reblazon: Or, a bridge of one arch throughout sable, masoned
argent, between two laurel wreaths sable and a ford proper.
Possible reblazon: Or, a bridge enarched throughout sable, masoned
argent, between two laurel wreaths sable and a ford proper.
probably clear of: Gavin MacFergus (12/91 Atlantia) -- Or, a fess
bretessed sable between two triskelions and a falcon displayed, head
to sinister, gules.
There is at least one CD for changes to the secondaries, and probably
one for changing the bottom half of the ordinary to a plain line; I’m
not certain, in this case, however, that there really should be a CD
between a bridge (given the emblazon of the new submission) and a fess
embattled.
clear of: Border Keep, Canton of (12/08 Middle) -- Argent, a tower
gules issuant from a ford proper, between in chief two laurel wreaths
vert.
There is a CD for changing the field tincture, and at least one for
changing the type and tincture of the primary charge; there may or may
not be one for the tincture of the laurel wreaths, given the tincture
issues with the new submission.
4. Cailin Ruadh mac Cainnich (change from holding name)
The online docs for the given name are as cited.
The docs for the descriptive byname are as cited; specifically,
numerous of the dated citations show the submitted spelling in the Raw
Data. The Black cite is more or less as given; the commentary about
the variant spelling appears from context to refer to the header form
<Colin> rather than to the submitted form, but since the
submitted
form is listed as dated citation as a subsidiary header, it is
probably sufficient with a note about being careful about interpreting
documentation.
The docs for the patronymic byname are as cited.
5. Daniel O Rian the Fletcher (badge) -- Or, a fess couped gules and
in chief to [sic] saltires couped sable.
This is Remus Fletcher’s son. Nuff said. :-)
Note that in the LoAR commentary returning the device of Violante
d‘Atayde, “Gules, a chevron rayonny Or” (10/08 Outlands) it says:
This device is in conflict with the device of Mar Arthursson,
Gules,
a chevron couped Or [sic]. We do not grant difference for
couping an
ordinary. Therefore, there is a only a single CD for the change of
type
from a chevron couped to a chevron rayonny.
Possible reblazon: Or, a fess couped gules and in chief two saltorels
sable.
no conflicts found
6. Finnr jafnkollr (device resub) -- Gules, in bend a merlin rising
contourney [sic] sustaining as [sic] axe bendwise sinister reversed
within a bordure Or.
clear of: Tyrfingr von Wolfsberg (joint badge with Gwenhevare of
Coventry, 9/08 Outlands) -- Gules, a hawk volant to sinister, wings
addorsed and a bordure engrailed Or.
There is a CD for adding the co-primary (the axe) and one for the
complex line on the bordure.
clear of: Jean Michel of Tir Ysgithr (1/09 Atenveldt ) -- Azure, in
bend a hawk rising contourny Or sustaining a trident a trident
bendwise sinister argent.
There is a CD for changing the field, and one for adding the bordure.
In addition, there is probably also one for type and tincture of the
sustained charge.
7. Raghnailt in Eich
The docs for the given name are as cited.
I’m somewhat confused by the docs for the byname: the normalized form
(at least for <in Eich Gil> ) but all the raw data forms appear
to be
<an Eich G(h)il>. It also isn’t clear whether dropping the color
part of the descriptive would be a form that would be found, or if the
grammar is correct. In O’Brien’s “Index of Names in Irish Annals:
Masculine Descriptive Bynames” [URL:
http://www.medievalscotland.org/kmo/
AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Topic.shtml#Hair] the descriptive for
[human] white or fair hair is <Bán>.
I’m inclined to say that this should be forwarded to Laurel with a
request for additional assistance.
8. Remus Fletcher (badge) -- Or, a chevron gules and in chief
two hurts.
Artist’s note -- I really wanted to make the chevron thicker, but to
do so would have
would have had it either issuant from base, or made with a lot
shallower angle.
possibly clear of: Brienus Holebroc (10/01 Meridies) -- Or crusilly
sable, a chevron gules.
possibly clear of: Modric Deodatus (1/96 Calontir) -- Or, a chevron
between three mullets in chief and a dragon passant gules.
possibly clear of: Eirikr inn Litli (10/96 Caid) -- Or, a chevron
between two griffins combattant and a double-bladed axe gules.
possibly clear of: Rupert the Unbalanced (11/04 East) -- Or, a
chevron gules between in chief two pairs of arrows inverted in saltire
and in base three goblets one and two sable.
possibly clear of: Lukas Mesmer (8/02 Calontir) -- Or, a chevron
gules between three ermine spots sable.
possibly clear of: College on the Hill, Canton of (1/82 East) -- Or,
a chevron gules between two brown bears salient combattant proper and
a laurel wreath vert. [Ursus arctus]
possibly clear of: Gwenhevare Cordelia Maynard 911/01 Ansteorra) --
Or, a chevron gules between two horses combattant and a castle sable.
In each of these cases, there is at least one CD for significant
changes to the secondaries (type/number/tincture).
probably clear of: Annais Eleanor de Montgomerie (1/96 Ansteorra) --
Or masoned sable, a chevron gules.
There is a CD for adding the secondaries, and probably one for removal
of the field treatment.
Black, George F. TheSurnamesofScotland:TheirOrigin,Meaning,andHistory.
Edinburgh: Birlinn Ltd., 1999, 2004 [copyright: The New York Public
Library, 1946].
Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme [Bruce Miller] and Akagawa Yoshio
[Kevin Munday]. APictorialDictionaryofHeraldryAsUsedinTheSocietyforCreativeAnachronism,
2nd Ed., 1992.