ÆTHELMEARC
COLLEGE OF HERALDS - commentary archive
Letter of Intent #42
Debatable Lands Commenting Group
Unto Dagonell Collingwood, Garnet Herald, does Juliana de Luna, Gage
Herald, send greetings! Enclosed find the comments from the May meeting
of the Debatable Lands commenting group. The following people were
present: Myfanwy verch Rhiannon, Brandubh Ó Donghaile, Hildarun
Hugelmann, Richenda du Jardin, Ailis Linne, Cadell Blaidd Du, and
Thomas
Ouswood.
1. Alaric MacConal - Looks fine
2. Ana Oft der Turn - Her name was passed May 99 as "Anna im Turm".
Consider Efron le Fey "(Fieldless) An acorn pierced by an arrow
fesswise
reversed sable." If the arrow is a coprimary, then it's clear; if not,
it's a conflict. This could probably be settled quickly - Efron is the
herald (or at least was until recently) of Hunters Home. We could get a
Letter of Permission to conflict.
3. Anabella de Fyfe - Withycombe does not cite this spelling,
though it
is a reasonable interpolation from the forms she does cite
(specifically
"Anabel" dated to 1311 and the Latinized form "Annabella"; while
undated, it is unlikely that a Latinized form is post-period).
Additionally, Talan Gwynek ("Feminine Given Names in DES" page 88)
dates "Anabella" to c. 1308 (in R&W, s.n. Annable).
4. Andro Darach - Good name! Culturally compatible citations within
7
years of one another.
5. Brandric of Rhydderich Hael - new name: Brandric Slayrock
Note: We need to know how the name is put together. Is this supposed to
be "Brandric Slayrock?" "Brandric of Slayrock?"
6. Charles of Alden - Looks clear.
7. Cormac O'Gadhra - Consider Stefan Laskówski "Argent, a
cat herissant
and on a chief gules, two wings conjoined in vol argent." There is no
difference for the change in position of the cat (from passant to
herissant), nor for the type of cat (cat vs. lion). This leaves but a
single CD for changes to the tertiaries.
8. Corvinus filius Nennius - The byname "Nennius" should be in the
genitive case, not the nominative, making it "Nennii". Sorry I forgot
to summarize the information - ask me about it if you need a better
summary.
A couple of people in the commenting group observed that the bottom
part
of the key wards bore a slight resemblance to a swastika. We don't,
however, think this merits anything other than a casual suggestion to
the submitter.
9. Cynwrig Wyn - Cynwrig is as cited. Morgan & Morgan dates
"Tudur Wyn
ap Gruffith Vechan" to 1500-1516. Heather Rose Jones "A Simple Guide to
Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" gives "Wyn" as a masculine
spelling of "Gwyn", which means 'fair'.
10. Edana Ingen on Druidah - We cannot find any evidence for the
name
"Edana" as a period name. We suggest she might want to consider the
English names "Edan" (1379) or "Edine," (1273) (Withycombe, s.n. Edith)
that closely resemble her desired name. The second element of the name
should be "inghean" (note lack of capitalization) to match the late
period spelling of the rest of the surname. The documentation gives
"an", not "on Druidah"
11. Eldridht in Skamma - This appears to be clear.
12. Emelyne the Scrivener - Withycombe (s.n. Diane) says that
"Diane"
came into use in the Renaissance and cites "Diane de Poitiers",
(1499-1566) the mistress of Henri II of France.
13. Gabriella d'Asti - Consider Elspeth of Harilow "(Fieldless) A
heartsease proper. [Viola tricolor]". A heartsease is a violet that is
about 2/3rds purple. Additionally, this is drawn poorly such that we
could not identify it clearly as a violet (I thought it was supposed to
be a rose, until I read the blazon).
14. Geossallyn -We *are* being nice. :)
First, the Admin Handbook clearly says that "Baby Name books" ought
to
be avoided, as they generally focus on strange modern spellings rather
than period spellings. Second, we cannot register a simple given name;
there must be at least two name elements. The submitter might consider
"Jocelin" found between 1196-1285 or "Joscelin" dated 1199,
(Withycombe,
s.n. Jocelyn, though it is a man's name in period), although all of
these were used as male names in period. While "Jessica" appears to
have been created by Shakespeare, it is probably registerable (although
submitter could always use the Mundane Name Allowance). "Joscelin of
(SCA placename)" would work.
There are two problems with the submitted device, either of which
would
be grounds for return. First of all, having three types of charges in a
single group violates the Rules for Submissions (RfS VIII.1.a,
colloquially known as "Slot Machine"). Second, the eagle and the
panther are sable on an azure field, violating the Rule of Tincture
(RfS
VIII.2).
15. Hroswith of Southwoods - Ælfwyn æt Gyrum's
"Anglo-Saxon Names" lists
"Hereswið." In addition, Withycombe (s.n. Rose, Rosalind, Rosamund)
gives the proto-theme "(H)ros," which is found in "Rosalind" and
"Rosamund." Given Anglo-Saxon naming practice, the prototheme "(H)ros"
ought to be combinable with the deuterotheme "wið" to produce
"Hroswith".
16. Marguerite de Troyes - Looks fine.
17. Meadhbh Inghean Sheamuis - We trust Jaelle, however, since the
form
has her name misspelled, we feel the need to document the name
ourselves. :-) "Meadhbh" is on page 135 of OC&M as the modern
(after
1200) spelling of "Medb". "inghean" should not be capitalized. OC&M
lists "Séamus" as the dominant spelling of that name. The
genitive
would be "Séamuis", and "Shéamuis" with lenition.
We consider this clear of Alberad von Westerwanna "Argent, a dragon
statant purpure breathing flames proper, in dexter chief a cauldron
purpure." There is no CD for change of position from statant to
passant. There is a CD for change of type of the secondary charge, and
we believe one for position as well.
18. Morien MacBan - As far as we can tell from the mini, the field
is
not crusilly. I assume this is due to poor copies. Please inform the
herald to copy the mini's from the line drawings. In addition, that's
not a Maltese cross; it is halfway between a Maltese cross and a cross
swallowtail. It needs to be redrawn as clearly one or the other before
it can be passed. Of course, without the crusilly, this conflicts with
the Order of the Knights of Malta "Gules, a Maltese cross argent." Of
course, a Maltese cross does not have room in the center for a
tertiary.
We are concerned about whether this falls under the "sword and dagger"
rule. We assume that the invisible crusilly is indeed crosses
crosslet. If so, it is probably acceptable to combine with a Maltese
cross, as Laurel said "Since we give a CD between a sun and an estoile,
this does not fall afoul of the "similar but not identical charges"
(often called "the sword and dagger") rule. (Aliena Goodeve, 2/98 p.
6)." We are not as convinced that this is the case if it is drawn as a
cross swallowtail.
19. Morwenna of Lansallos - Hmm. No herald of record. Seems
unseemly... :) (it's me, of course).
20. Nigel of Southwoods - Looks ok to us.
21. Patricia de Moseleia - new name
Withycombe says that "Patricia" is a Latinized form for underlying
"Patrick," so this is probably registerable, if unlikely as a real
name.
22. Sara of Cambridge - We observe that the name looks OK. However,
the
primary charge is not a compass star (which has 4 greater and 4 lesser
points), but "a mullet of eight points elongated to chief."
23. Tarlach MacLove - According to the submitter's fiancee, the
byname
should be "MacLave", not "MacLove". If you're unsure, let us put you
two in contact. OC&M gives Gaelic "Tárlach" as a modern form
(possibly
as late as this century). The period spellings of the name (the header
forms in OC&M) are "Tairdelbach" and "Toirdhealbhach"; they give
"Turlough" as the "best Anglicization." The cited reference in
MacLysaught is for "MacLave".
We found the blazon confusing. We assume that this is intended to be
"Per chevron throughout argent and azure, 2 birds close with dexter
claw
elevated sable and a sun argent eclipsed sable." It cannot be blazoned
"chapé" because a chapé cannot be charged. We assumed
that this had to
follow the Rule of Tincture, and so reversed the field colors. If this
is not correct, ignore our conflict checking.
We believe this to be clear of Thorvaldr Gángläre
Vakkerfjell "Per
chevron throughout argent and azure two ravens addorsed sable and three
drinking horns in annulo argent," with 1 CD for number and 1CD for
change of type of at least half the charges, and Brann Morgan Dunmore
of
Galloway " Argent, upon a pile inverted throughout, between two ravens
sable, a tower argent," with 1 CD for change of color of the pile and
one for complete change of type of the tertiary.
24. Yang Lui - Please use line drawing only for non-sable device
objects. It was very difficult for us to consider devices #18 and #24
as we could not color them to get an accurate portrayal of their visual
effect.