ÆTHELMEARC
COLLEGE OF HERALDS - commentary archive
Letter of Intent #47
Debatable Lands Commenting Group
Unto Dagonell, Garnet Herald, and all others to whom these presents
may come does Juliana de Luna, Gage Herald, send felicitous greetings
on the second day of February, the feast of Candlemas.
These are the comments by the Debateable Lands commenting group on
the Aethelmearc Internal Letter of Intent AE47. The following wonderful
people contributed to this letter: Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon, Richenda du
Jardin, Cadell Blaidd Dhu, Ailis Linne, and Thomas Ouswood.
Are we doing an April 1 LoI? I'd even do it, if you wouldn't mind...
General notes: Thanks for giving in gracefully about the
capitalization of "or." It's annoying, I know. So, keep reminding the
College that it's just weird.
1. Aíbell Suiléan Uaine - <Uaine> is definitely
a modern Scots Gaelic word meaning "green." See for example:
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/features/featurefirst200.html, which
defines <Sgor an Lochain Uaine> as "Peak of the little green
loch." Similarly <Suilean> seems to mean "eyes." See for example:
http://www.greenmanreview.com/suileandubh.html, a review of an album
titled <Sulean Dubh> 'Dark eyes.' Is this a likely byname? No,
and I told the submitter as much. Is it registerable? That's for the
College to decide.
Here's a last minute addition. Orle Herald, from Ansteorra (Mari
Elspeth nic Bryan), observes "Four Masters (4) lists <donnchad.
dub.suileach> in 1474 on . p. 1088 (The periods in the previous
citation represent a dot that appears above a previous letter. So we
would read this in Roman characters as <dubhsuileach>.) A
footnote indicates that the meaning of <dub.suileach> is
"black-eyed." That suggests that some form of this (though not the
submitted one) is registerable. Send it up highlighting this commentary
abnd pointing to the submission <Rúadhán>
Súilghlas> from the An Tir 30 November letter.
2. Ailionora MacGafraidh - Her name was registered in 10/98 as
<Ailionóra ingen mhic Gafraidh>. Hey Rocky! Watch me pull
a lightening bolt out of my hat! Seriously, the moose head looks
cartoonish; it could stand to be more naturalistic.
3. Alana MacLeland - While the registerability of <Alana> has
sometimes been in doubt, evidence has been found to support it.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn has cited (1381) <Robertus filius
Radulfi> and <Alana filia eius>. This citation is from:
Fenwick, Carolyn C. Poll Taxes of 1377, 1379, and 1381, Part 1:
Bedfordshire-
Leicestershire p. 112. Unfortunately, we don't have photocopies of
it.
This probably reflects an underlying feminine <Alan>, but it's
fine for registration. There are also numerous citations of the
masculine <Alanus> cited by the submitter.
4. Aldan Kerr - <Aldan> is found in Black as a header form,
and <Aldan, brother of Gospatric, son of Crin> is dated to 1153
and another <Aldan> is dated to 1250.
Kerr (s.n. Ker) is a header form in Black. <John Kerr> is dated
to 1357. conflict check??
5. Alexander Logan of Argyll - Well, it's registerable. It would be
better as <Alexander Logan>, but... Both Alexander and Logan are
header forms in their cited works.
6. Allison Poinvillars de Tours - This is grandfathered to her in
every detail (the only change is that the green plantlike thing had
berries before), and it's my fault. Sorry. Reblazon: "Per chevron wavy
throughout per pale argent and Or and azure, a garden rose gules
slipped and leaved, a slip of St. John's wort vert and
a heron rising argent."
7. Allesandra d'Avignon - We could not locate the spelling
<Allesandra>. <Alessandra> is an Italian form, found in
Arval Benicoeur "Feminine Given Names from the Online Catasto of
Florence of 1427" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/catasto/).
Various French names occur with both <l> and <ll>,
including <Alouette> and <Allouette> (Dauzat);
<Allais> and <Alais> (Dauzat); <Alison> 15th c. and
<Allison> 1604 (Withycombe). <Alissandre> is found in
Dauzat. Therefore, we think <Allessandre> might be acceptable for
registration.
<d'Avignon> is given as an early form of <Davignon> in
Dauzat (s.n. Davigneau). The city is well known as a papal center in
period. The stuff for <d'Avignon> was supposed to be attached. I
wonder where it went....
8. Charles Andreason - Return dates would be helpful (I assume the
first submission was returned 11/96, though it's not listed as such in
the LoAR for that date). The combination of English <Charles> and
Scandinavian <Andreasson> is registerable, though not authentic
(it is the client's understanding, as well as Elsbeth's that
<Charles Anderson> was returned for conflict, that we believe
this will clear). The SMP has <Tyrchilus Andreæsson> 1311.
The given name <Andreas> is dated to 1363. It should probably be
<Andreasson>.
9. Daimhín Sinna - The previous submission was < Daman
Mac Saoirbhreathaich> which would have been on the external letter
that was decided in September at Laurel. It's LoI #40. I think I told
you in the cover letter, which is doubtless long gone...
10. Donnchad MacGafriadh - His name was registered as <Donnchad
MacGadfraidh> in 10/98.
11. Filippo de Sancto Martino - The name was on Letter #44. Well,
he's solved the contrast problem, and there's no conflict.
12. Gabrielle de Nevers - Dauzat (s.n. Gabriel) gives
<Gabrielle> as a feminine form. The Academy of St. Gabriel has
found a 16th century citation of the name in:
Perouas, L., B. Barrière, B., J. Boutier; J.-C. Peyronnet, &
J. Tricard, _Léonard, Marie, Jean et les Autres: Les
Prénoms en Limousin depuis un Millénaire (Paris:
Éditions du Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, 1984).
The IGI, which she cites, is a very mixed source. The Mormons
will take any data and dump it in. So, some of it is direct
transcriptions of historical records, while other parts are home-made
genealogies that are dubious at best. <Nevers> is a location
mentioned in Arval "French Names from Two 13th century Chronicles."
13. Gaspar del Hoyo - This appears to be free from conflict.
14. Katja Davidova Orlova Khazarina - Her name was registered in
8/96. Of course, you know that you don't have to give yourself
permission to conflict; we assume that. The device seems to be clear.
However, versus the badge, consider Katrine de Baillie du Chat "Azure,
a domestic cat sejant on a base embattled, all argent." We believe
there is but a single CD for the addition of the base (and yes, we
looked at it to make sure that the cat was sitting on top of the base).
Also Jordre Pargon of Windhover's Reach "Azure, a snow leopard sejant
argent spotted sable." For this one, I'm do not believe there's a
single CD; precedent says that head position and kitty markings don't
count for difference:
[A Bengal tiger vs. a catamount] The tiger's marking is worth no
heraldic difference (Roland de Mounteney, September, 1992, pg. 46).
15. Keran Roslin- Reblazon: "Argent, a heart gules between two
pallets *wavy* azure," though it sure looks to me like "Argent, a heart
between two pallets wavy *sable." The device appears to be free from
conflict.
The queen named <Keran> who the documentation mentions was
alive to be patron for an illuminated gospel in 1272. This fact can be
referenced at: http://www.itgateway.com/unesco/fullpage.htm
Since we're not sure what kind of byname <Roslin> is, we're
not sure if this is the form a woman would use. Looking for something
that might be relevant, we found that Wickenden (3rd edition) cites
<Roslin> as patronymic surname derived from <Rosla> to
1600. This implies a feminine form of <Roslina>. But we're not
sure if this is the same name or not.
16. Mary MacLeod - The return is misquoted. It really says,
"Submitted as Maura MacLeod, no documentation was
given showing that Maura was a period given name. The Irish Gaelic form
Maire appeared so late in Irish as a solitary given name that we are
doubtful that English diminutives appeared within our period. We
therefore replaced the given name with a documented form."
The evidence presented is certainly sufficient to register the name,
though not as an Anglo-Irish name. The evidence presented in the appeal
for <Maura> as a saint's name, particularly that of <Maura of
Troyes> d. 899, is sufficient to justify the registration of the
name <Maura>. The combination of French and Scots is not totally
unreasonable, and we treat saint's names as if they are in the naming
pool from the time of their veneration on barring other evidence, so
there is no temporal incompatibility. Therefore this appeal should be
allowed, though this is clearly not a justification of <Maura> as
a Scots name.
However, the evidence of <Kilmaurs> should not be taken as
evidence of the use of the name. Like <Bridget> and
<Patrick>, OC&M state that <Mary> was only used in
devotional names that take forms like <Gille Muire> 'servant of
Mary,' which is the form actually preserved in the cited
<Kilmaurs>. Therefore, this does not support her appeal.
17. Michaelina Cenomani da Trento - <Michelina> is found in
Arval Benicouer "Feminine Given Names from the Online Catasto of
Florence of 1427" (http://www.s-
gabriel.org/names/arval/catasto/). According to a Trento tourism
website, Trento has been populated since before 1000 AD
(http://www.unitn.it/trentino/trent.html). <Cenomani> is the most
interesting. There are some suggestions that it might work, at least in
some form. For example, <Richardus Cenomagus>, also
(Cenomani/Richard Le Mans, d. 1552/3 in Chartres) (a theologian and
professor at the University of Paris) is found at
http://users.bart.nl/~roestb/franciscan/franautr.html#RichardusCenomagus.
Of course, he's French, but no one's perfect. Of course, other similar
sounding forms, like <Cennamelli> and <Cennini> are found
in "Family Names Appearing in the Catasto of 1427"
(http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/ferrante/catasto/family_names.html).
18. Muriel inghean Giolla Comqaill - The byname combines early and
late spelling conventions. It should be either <Gilla Comgaill>
or <Giolla Chomhghaill>. I'd go for the late period <inghean
Ghiolla Chomhghaill>. The combination of English <Muriel>
(whose association with Gaelic <Muirgheal> is probably not
derivational) and a Gaelic byname is now legal, though not authentic.
19. Otelia d'Alsace - Her name was registered in 11/98. It is
difficult to make judgement calls on whether this has a conflict, as
precedents on crosses clechy are not many. This is almost certainly
clear of, Richard of Alsace, "Vair, a Latin cross fleury Or," as Da'ud
ruled "A cross clechy is a CVD from a cross flory." (LoAR 7/90 p.6).
However, it is not as certain that it is clear of Ian Bruce Macrae
"Gyronny azure and gules, a key cross Or." In fact, the O&A says
this under his device: "(A key cross looks like the Cross Cleche shown
in Elvin plate 8, figure 39.)" The primary difference between these
crosses is that a key cross has small "buttons" on the corners. It is
probably clear of the Counts of Tolouse "Gules, a cross of Tolouse Or,"
with a CD allowable because of the voiding which is part of a cross of
Toulouse. However, this is a decision for Laurel; I'd send it up with
the potential conflict called.
20. Phillippia Coleman - The evidence for <Phillippia> is
really lacking. Instead, we find <Philippa>. Spellings with
<ll> are found in the 15th century <Phillip>. <-ia>
is formed from names whose masculine ends in <-ius>.
<Phillip> is not such a name. <Coleman> is as cited.
21. Persephone of Troyes - This is justified as a name which might
have come into use during the 15th century revival of classical names
in England, citing such names as <Hercules> and <Percival>.
Frankly, we don't have the tools to determine with any certainty
whether <Persephone> might have been used. I hope that the CoA
will be able to help; otherwise, I don't see how we can give her the
benefit of the doubt with a name that has been used for a single
goddess. R&W (s.n. Troy) cites <de Troie> to 1200 and <de
Troys> to 1276.
22. Rolland of Hunter's Home - Rolland is as cited. Hunter's Home
was registered in 9/91. This is free from conflict.
23. Remus Fletcher - Remus thinks he's so clever. But Dagonell's
funnier... His name was registered in 8/90. This is clear from
conflict.
24. Robert Marston - Robert(us) is cited to 1086 in Withycombe.
Marston is as cited.
25. Roana d'Evreux - Her name was registered in 9/2000 (which is
why I didn't tell you).
26. Siobhan ní Fidheacht - Sibán ingen Ragnall - The
genitive form appears to be <Ragnaill>, making this <ingen
Ragnaill>. This early, I don't think it needs to be lenited.
5 ½. Alina Marie de Valenciennes - Her name was registered
in 3/98. What a lovely line drawing; at first I didn't notice the bend
sinister. We conflict checked this assuming that it's "Per bend sinister
gules and sable" not "Per bend gules and sable." If so this conflicts
with Zinaida Likhitovna Umanskaya "Per bend sinister gules and sable, a
bend sinister between a pomegranate and a bear's head erased Or ," with
only 1 CD for changes to the type of the secondary charges.