ÆTHELMEARC
COLLEGE OF HERALDS - commentary archive
Letter of Intent #67
Heronter Heralds Commenting Group
Unto the AEthelmearc College of Arms, greetings from the Heron Heralds!
Herein, our comments on ILoI #AE67. This is our very first comment letter!
1.) Aengus MacBain New badge
(Fieldless) A thistle per pale sable and Or.
"Can someone tell us when his name was registered?"
December 1995, via the East, as Angus MacBain
Clear of:
Fionna Goodburne (badge) "(Fieldless) a thistle purpure."
1 CD for fieldless, 1 CD for tincture
Scotland (badge) "(Fieldless) a thistle proper."
1 CD for fieldless, 1 CD for tincture
2.) ’thelmearc, Kingdom of Acceptance of transfer of heraldic title -
Seedling Pursuivant
"This title is being transferred to us from the East Kingdom; both a letter of
transfer from Brigantia and a letter of acceptance from Silver Buccle are
included with the submission. Can someone tell us when the title was originally
registered?"
May 1981 to the East. Wasn't this already on External Letter AE66?
3.) Aine ingen u¡ Mac Aonghus New name, New device
Aine -- O'C&M, pg 19, s.n. AINE -- m & f "radiance, splendour, brilliance" As a
male name Aine occurred amoung the Ciarraige and other peoples but it became
obsolete at a very early period. However it retained its popularity as a female
name."
Aonghus -- O'C&M, pg 148, s.n. OENGUS, AENGUS, AONGHUS -- m "Oengus is the young
god of Irish tradition and it is a name borne by many legendary heroes. Oengus
Tirech is one of the legendary ancestors of the O Briens, Mac Namaras and
The feminine patronymic would be something like: "ingen Oengusa" or "inghean
Aonghuis" if she wants to be known as Aine, daughter of Angus. Please bear in
mind that using "ingen" and "mac" together would make her Aine, the daughter of
the son of Angus. With "ui" instead of "mac" she'd be a daughter of a family
originated by some forerunner named Angus. Can't really have "ui" and "mac" at
the same time. Someone will have to ask the submitter if she wants to be
Angus's daughter, granddaughter, or member of the clan descended from him.
"Pean, a horse's head couped contourny and on a chief embattled argent
three towers vert."
No conflicts found.
4.) Aurenca Mouly New name, New device
"Or, on a chief gules three crosses moline Or." I.P.P.I.*
Nice job on the name research! No conflicts found.
5.) Bataar Sogdo New name
Bataar -- First, the submission is spelled B- single a - T - double a - R. The
documentation is for B- double a - T - single a - R. The Cleveland Museum of
Natural History (http://www.cmnh.org) archives their more interesting
discussions. In November 2002, a discussion on "Transcribing Mongolian Names"
specifically stated that "Bataar" and "Baatar" were the same name.
(http://www.cmnh.org/dinoarch/2002Nov/msg00611.html)
Second, according to the official SCA website (http://www.sca.org), the reserved
Mongolian word for knight is "Bahadur", not "Bataar". Other than the cited web
page, we could find no indication that "Bahadur" and "Bataar" were the same word,
therefore we believe the page to be in error. According to every source we found,
"Bataar" means "warrior" while "Bahadur" translates as "commander".
According to the research paper "On the Documentation and Construction of Period
Mongolian Names" by Baras-aghur (found all over the Internet, The SCA copy is at:
http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/mongol.html while St.Gabriel's has it
at: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/baras-aghur/mongolian.html)
"Period names of the n+n pattern are combined of two elements, both of
which can stand on their own. The exception to this are names of the
pattern that consist of a given name and the epithet. Examples of this
are Al Altan (crimson gold), Qori Buqa (twenty bulls), and Mongke Temur
(eternal iron)."
We believe the name being submitted, which translates as "Drunken Warrior" falls
into this pattern.
Sogdo -- We did not find documentation for this spelling. The cited webpage
(http://www.mobinet.mn/en/dictionary/index.jsp) translates "intoxicated" as
"sogtuu". However, we note that the t/d substitution seems to be a common one,
and "o" for "uu" seems a not unreasonable transliterational variant.
(BTW, if anyone had trouble using this webpage, you type the English word
into the search engine, and the English - Mongolian dictionary will print out
Our recommendation is that the name be passed on to Laurel with the notation
that "Sogduu" or "Sogtuu" may be substituted if necessary. Please do not pend
this name submission again. It has been held since ILoI AE57. This is a very
long time for a name to be in process.
6.) Fintan na Coilled New name, New device
"Argent, a stag rampant gules and on a chief azure two pairs of arrows
crossed in saltire argent."
No conflicts found.
8.) M el Coluim map Vipogwench New name, New device
"Vert, a serpent in annulo argent and a chief rayonny ermine."
Conflict with:
Ragnachar Radagaist (badge) "Vert, a serpent in annulo argent."
1 CVD for the chief
In heraldic service,
The Heron Heralds (an Heraldic Flying Circus affiliate),
Emily Beckwith (No SCA name yet)
Yvonne Kridler (No SCA name yet)
Leonor Farfan
Malcolm Fraiser the Impatient
Keinven Ragnarsdottir
Cigfran Caer Gwalch (presiding)
Dagonell the Juggler (recording secretary)
* It's Pretty, Pass it.