ÆTHELMEARC COLLEGE OF HERALDS - commentary archive
Letter of Intent #72
Arynhwy merch Catmael


Greetings unto the fine heralds of AEthelmearc, and others whom these words meet, from Aryanhwy merch Catmael, herald-at- large.

Here are my comments on the name submissions in AE ILoI 72.

2. Adam Enstone on Tyne - I would expect to see a preposition in here; while many locative bynames became inherited surnames (losing the preposition while it happens), I haven't ever seen any inherited surnames formed from the complex form of a place name. <Adam Enstone> is unremarkable, but I'd be more comfortable with <Adam _of_ Enstone on Tyne>.

We should also keep in mind the following precedent from 07/01:

"Submitted as Margaret of Catteshull in Meriden, no documentation was provided for using two locative bynames in this manner, or for a locative byname derived from a complex place name like Catteshull in Meriden. We have changed the first byname to an inherited surname. [Margaret Catteshull of Meriden, 07/01, A-Atlantia]"

Consider also the following from the 04/03 LoAR:

"Samuel Calvert of Gidiehall Honiburn. Name. Submitted as Samuel Calvert of Gidiehall-on-Honiburn, the submitter requested authenticity for 16th C English and allowed minor changes. No examples of [placename]-on-[placename] were found in period. The example of Stretford upon Auen found in Speed's The Counties of Britain (p. 178, map of Warwickshire, map dated 1610) is formed [placename] upon [river name] rather than [placename] upon [placename]. Metron Ariston found support for a hypothetical placename of Gidiehall Honiburn:

"Gidiehall-on-Honiburn does not appear in my copy of Mills under Honeybourne, as stated on the Letter of Intent. However, Honiburn does, as part of Calewe Honiburn dated to 1374. Mills does give under the heading of Gidea Park, a citation of La Gidiehall from 1258. Together they would certainly support something like Gidiehall Honiburn from the thirteenth or fourteenth century [...].

"Given this information, we have dropped -on- from this byname in order to register this name. Lacking evidence that this form is appropriate for the 16th C, we were unable to confirm that this name is appropriate for the submitter's desired time period."

3. Aíbell Shúlglas - Lovely arms. Her name is not in the OandA, nor was it registered or returned after September 2002. Is it maybe still in process?

4. Ailis Linne - Her primary name was registered 01/00.

5. Aine ingean Ruaidri - <Ruaidri> is not the same name as <Richard>, nor was it even equated with <Richard> in period. The Irish Gaels adopted <Richard> as <Riocard> and <Risderd>. These names are found 7 times between 1322 and 1598 in the Annals, according to http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Riocard.shtml

Four examples are of Anglo-Normans, but the other three are Gaels:

1322.9 Ricart Mac Feorais tigerna Atha na Rig
M1466.7 Riocard mac Emainn Tirial
M1469.4 Risderd Occ Ua Raighilligh tanaisi Breifne

The genitives of these names are <Riocaird> and <Risdeird>. <Riocard> is more closely identifiable with <Richard>, so I recommend this over <Risderd>.

<ingean> is not a correct spelling. The word is <ingen> pre c1200 and <inghean> post c.1200. Since <Riocard> wasn't used in Ireland until after the 13th century, <inghean Riocaird> is the appropriate byname. Her given name, (which is <Áine> with accents), is fine for this period. It is found 10 times between 1169 and 1468, according to http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Aine.shtml

In sum, <Áine inghean Riocaird> is a fine Irish Gaelic name meaning 'Áine, daughter of Riocard [Richard]'.

6. Alan the Strong - Fine name.

8. Aurenca Mouly - Fine name.

10. Beatrice de Winter - Please cite the sources that the Academy uses in its reports. The report says "We find <de Winter> between 1250 and 1400 in the Low Countries [4], and <de Wyntere> in 1514 in Bruges. [5]" The sources are:

[4] Beele, Wilfried, _Studie van de Ieperse Persoonsnamen uit de Stads- en Baljuwsrekeningen 1250-1400_ (Handzame, 1975)., entry 3038, p. 80

[5] Luana de Grood, "Flemish Given Names from Bruges, 1400-1600", (WWW: Academy of Saint Gabriel, 1996) .
http://www.us.itd.umich.edu/~ximenez/s.gabriel/docs/bruges/

Even though <Beatrice> is documented as an English name, it can also be found in English records of Dutch names. My draft article, "Names of Aliens in London, 1571" (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/drafts/aliens.html), has the following Dutch women recorded:

<Beatrice>
<Beatrice Walley>
<Beatrix>
<Beatrix van Ertaricke>

So while she may not have written her name <Beatrice> in Dutch, or have been called <Beatrice>, this is a fine way to spell the name in an English record, or in English speech.

11. Bevis of Sunderoak - Fine name.

12. Brian of Leichester - His name was registered March 1988. He has arms and one badge already registered; registering this will not put him over the limit.

13. Bridget Walker - Lovely name.

14. Carlo Garlucci - His name was registered August 2002. I know I said above that I'm commenting on name submissions only, but this brought to mind an immediate conflict, so I figured I'd mention it:

Society for Creative Anachronism
The following seal associated with this name was registered in August of 1979 (via the West):
(Tinctureless) A secretary-bird sejant regardant. [Sagittarius sepentarius]
for Privy Clerk to Morsulus Herald

There is one CD for fieldlessness, but none for tincture. I do not know if there is another for type.

Vs.
Brian of Leichester
The following badge associated with this name was registered in January of 1993 (via the East):
(Fieldless) A dodo close vert armed Or.

and

Raven Jäde vom Schwarzwald
The following badge associated with this name was registered in July of 2000 (via Atlantia):
(Fieldless) A raven vert.

There should be a CD for fieldlessness and one for type in each case.

16. Dafydd MacNab - This combines Welsh and Scots in the same name, which is a weirdness per the 08/01 LoAR.

18. Donnan the Solitary - His name was registered February 1986.

19. Elizabeth Musard - Fine name.

21. Franz Belgrand die Mus - HIs name was registered October 2002.

22. Ghalib al-Sami - This is a fine _Arabic_ name, but there is nothing particularly Persian about it at all.

23. Gideon Lydiard - His name was registered April 2002.

24. Gwenllian o'r Beddgelert - <Gwenllian> is the standard modern form of a name that was quite common throughout period. In the 13th C, it is found as:

Wentlian
Wentlyan
Wentliana
Wentlyana

according to "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/welsh13.html), where it is the second most popular feminine name.

In "A Simple Guide to Constructing 16th Century Welsh Names (in English Contexts)" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/welsh16.html), the name has been superceded in popularity by more traditional English names, but it is still the 7th most popular, found in the spellings

Gwenlliana
Wenllyan
Gwenllyan

Given the first and last, <Gwenllian> is a reasonable spelling as well.

What does Richards say about <Beddgelert>? This is not a source I'm familiar with, so it's even more important that the entry is adequately summarized on the LoI.

Depending on what <Beddgelert> is, <o'r> may not be appropriate. CA #66 says "When a proper name of a place is used as a byname, it almost always does so without any modification (no 'ofs' or 'froms'). The prepoisition <o> ("of, from") is often found used with generic terms: <o'r llyn> ("of the lake"), <o'r glyn> ("of the valley"). This preposition causes the following word to lenite.

25. Jean-Philippe Firmin d'Amiens - His name was registered October 1991.

26. Jenneca de Navarra - It's hard to tell from the LoI: Is <Jenneca> actually dated, or only <Jennecco>? If just <Jennecco>, then I would expect the feminine form of be <Jennecca>, with two c's.

27. Jochen Blitzger - Talan's "Late Period German Masculine Given Names" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/germmasc/) has <Joachim> in 15th C Arnsburg and in 16th C Plauen. I couldn't find <Jochen> in any of the sources in the MNA.

28. John Ignaiszack - Polish/English combinations were ruled unregisterable in 09/95, so he will need to go with a Polish form of the given name. Walraven's article has <Jan>, <Iwan>, and <Wan>.

32. Konstantinos Akropolites - Fine name.

33. Lothar Hugelman - His name was registered January 2003 as <Lothar Hügelman>.

34. Mailagnas Maqqas Dunaidonas - <maqqas> should not be capitalized, according to the examples in Tangwystyl's article. The rest of the name I have no quibble with at all - very nice!

35. May Wynn - Her name is not in the OandA, nor is it on any LoAR since Sept. 2002.

36. Michelina da Trento - Her name was registered September 2001.

38. Odriana vander Brugghe - Fine name. Her previous name was registered November 2001.

40. Óláfr Thorvardarson - His name is #8 on the June ELoI.

42. Paul Spyke - Lovely name!

43. Rhydderch ap Erwin - While English can be combined with Welsh without a weirdness, combining a 6th century given name with a 16th century byname has a temporal disparity of over 1000 years, which is not registerable.

44. Roana d'Evreux - <whistle>!

45. Seth Mac Michael - His name was registered August 2002 as <Seth MacMichael> (no space in the byname).

48. Taileshíthe of the Greenwood - I don't know enough about Gaelic compound names to know if this is a reasonable construction.

49. Tat'iana Kionova - The accompanying note on the submissions form is not correct. Names from any source are subjected to the same temporal and lingual weirdnesses. Since there is a 1000 year temporal disparity in this name, unless evidence can be found for <Tat'iana> earlier or <Kion> later, this name is not registerable.

50. Tiarnach mac Cathail - <Tiarnach> is not a post c.1200 spelling of the name, it is a post c.1900 spelling of the name (okay, so I suppose that means it is also post 13th C...). The appropriate later period spelling is <Tighearnach>. Modern forms of Gaelic names have previously explicitly been ruled not registerable. This should be corrected to <Tighearnach mac Cathail>.

51. Torella Salviati - This seems reasonable.

52. Vlksha Iakovleva - Men can't be their father's daughters, so the byname will have to be corrected to the appropriate masculine form. I do not know what that is.

53. Zoe Akropolitina - Looks fine.

Here are all my comments.

In service,
-Aryanhwy merch Catmael